RunMyShow Livestream Show Management

0:00 Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Office Hours Tuesday Focus. I'm Bill Davis in San Diego, and tonight my guest is our longtime Office Hours friend, David Paskin, who has been busy lately crafting a new tool for anyone who wants to be a host or guest of a live show like the one you're going to be watching right now. His app is called Run My Show, and it's an app built for live stream show management.

0:23 So that's our topic for tonight. And remember, since Office Hours is built around answering your questions, our live Q&A system is up and running. Let me toss up the QR code here on the bottom of the screen. If you have questions for David for the second half of the show, use that. Or just type in askofficehours.global into any web browser. That's askofficehours.global.

0:47 And once you do that, Cindy Drozda, our live Q&A manager, will sort the priorities based on whatever votes come in for these questions. And in the second half, we'll look to David for answers. So without further ado, that's me, tonight's guest, coming in live from Miami, Florida. In that area, my friend, Rabbi David Paskin. David, so good to have you here. Hello, Bill.

1:10 It's good to be here. Good to see you. It's always so much fun. I have to start with a confession. I occasionally appear on David's Thursday night show here on Office Hours, The Rundown. And for the last few times I've been appearing there, I've been fascinated by this new tool David has developed that makes the show a whole lot easier for both, I think, himself as the host, but also for the panelists.

1:33 It makes it easier by providing kind of a clear, concise, and customizable display for all the relevant information you typically need as a guest or a host. So David, start us off a little bit with maybe some of the origin story for why you decided to do this run my show thing. Yeah, absolutely. First of all, thank you for spending some time with me tonight.

1:57 I really appreciate it. So when we started the rundown, we knew it was going to be different than the traditional office hour show. We knew that we wanted to have YouTube chat as a part of it in addition to Mukana chat. We also knew that we weren't necessarily going to be as question-based as some of the other shows are. So what ended up happening is I would end up opening the Mukana operator panel so that I could make sure everyone's hand was raised on that test question so that it goes to the email.

2:33 And I would have the panelist view open of Mukana so I could see the chat happening. and then I would have the YouTube page open so I could see the YouTube chat. I'd have, of course, Zoom chat open because we use Zoom. And then I would have our rundown sheet, the sheet that we're all using, that would be open in a tab. And it just, it was insane. I mean, I'm starting to

2:57 giggle because that sounds so complicated to try to figure out where your eyes should fall. I, oh, you know, oh, I forgot one. And then I was also, well, it doesn't matter, but But yeah, you know, I just, there was so much information that I wanted to make sure I had at my fingertips to include. Most importantly to me was those chat pieces because I really, I care most about engaging the audience in what we're talking about.

3:28 And so whenever there's a chat message that I'm able to bring in, I wanted to be able to do that. So in any case, I had all these windows, all these things going on, and it really just got a little overwhelming. So what I ended up doing is discovering AI, like the rest of us. And so I've done some building over in lovable.dev, which is actually where this started also.

3:58 I've since discovered that I don't even need that, that I can use Codex and GitHub and all that other wonderful stuff. And so I've been building this for the past couple of months now. It's not anything fancy or complicated, but I think at least for the rundown, for me, it serves a really valuable purpose. Well, I can tell you it succeeds because when I come on your show, once I launched that,

4:27 I kind of know now where to look. It didn't take much more than the first 15 minutes or 10 minutes for me to get used to, oh, my eyes should go there for that. And oh, I can raise my hand over there. And it doesn't take very long to get up to speed with it. But once you do, you kind of have that.

4:41 It's something I've always noticed after I host for a while, a particular kind of a show, things like that, you get comfortable. And that comfortable really means you can engage yourself with the content, not the interface. So that to me has always been one of the most important parts of this. And your software seems to do that for me. So tell me a little bit about the inspiration for the layout that you got and kind of how you decided to go about making it look like it looks.

5:09 so uh that's a great question for today because uh what i'm actually showing today is a brand new interface so it it doesn't look yeah it doesn't i mean it can look like it did before but it doesn't and i'll and i'll explain why but fundamentally it's built around modules so there are a whole bunch of different modules that you could turn on or turn off you can

5:32 turn on notes you can turn on panel chat you can turn on uh zoom chat youtube chat or turn them all off and then those panels will pop up and you can move them each person can move them wherever they want on their page you can save that layout um and uh and then you know you can decide how you know do you want three columns or four columns and do you want to make things wider or shorter

5:56 i i built it originally in such a way that it it could really adapt to what the user wanted both the host and a panelist. Like most things in my life, it became, to me at least, very, I'm not sure that complex is the right word, maybe busy, became very busy. Just tons of buttons, tons of options. And so what I've been doing for the past week

6:27 is actually building a second, more streamlined interface, interface, letting people switch back to the other one, because there's a lot of value in the busier one. You can pop items out and move them to different screens and things like that. So the new interface is actually, I think, much more streamlined and probably a little easier to use. And when you're ready, we can jump into it. I can show folks around.

6:52 I'd like to do that really quickly. But right before we do that, I want to talk, because this always fascinates me. You are a very organized person. I've known you for a while now, and I can tell that. Did you start out with like a bullet list of topics? Did you start out by graphing on paper what you wanted it to look like? What was your creative process in bringing

7:11 this thing to life in the early, early stages? So, you know, unlike most developers, I shouldn't say that. I don't really know what most developers do, but what I imagine most developers do or product managers is they do really think through the product. They really think through the app. They lay things out. I'm much more of a, was it Google that said, you know, ship things and break things?

7:40 Whatever that saying was. Move fast and break things. Yeah, move fast and break things. That's much more my style. I think that's one of the reasons that I've fallen in love with doing this work using AI because as the countdown, so when our two-minute countdown started, I realized that there was one last tweak I didn't need it to make. And so I pulled up codex real quick.

8:06 I typed it in and it's made. And I love that. I love being able to think on the fly, make changes on the fly and move fast and break things. So what I actually did was I put the problem into ChatGPT work. And I said, listen, here's the dilemma I'm up against. I have all these disparate things. I'd like to build something.

8:31 And he stuck some ideas up for me. This is exactly what I did when I wanted to build the new streamlined interface also. I said, mock some options up for me. Show me what you can think of. And then we start building. And I keep iterating on it. So at first, you know, bringing YouTube chat in was kind of easy. Bringing Mukana chat in was sort of easy because it's really just a, you know, the simplified Mukana is just a page that you can grab and embed.

9:02 Zoom chat was a little more complicated. We can certainly talk about that. And then just iterating and iterating and iterating. And I have no doubt that this is version 0.001 and it will continue to iterate. Once we use it Thursday night for the show and everyone says, oh, I hated this and I loved this, we'll iterate. And so I wish that I took more time to think things through.

9:31 That's just not my style. I'm much more of a, yeah. Well, what I saw was already pretty robust in terms of the fact that it all worked and it was all helpful. So even if that was a .001, the fact that it was useful kind of tells the story. Give us a tour. take us into the software and show us a little bit about what you got going on.

9:50 Absolutely. I'd be happy to. So, and by the way, anyone can jump on this. This is, it's just a rundown, excuse me, run my.show. And you can just, you know, sign up for the beta. I'm happy to share that with you. So when you arrive in the beta, you will see your shows and you can create a new show here. I already have a couple of shows open. I'm going to go ahead and open

10:11 the rundown, which we'll be doing on Thursday night because it's already all built out. But But you can duplicate a show or edit a show and all of this. So when I open the host hub, this is the new view, what I call the streamlined view. I wonder if I can get my cursor. There we go. So this is what I'm calling the streamlined view.

10:36 Oh, allow. Sorry about that. And then if you want to, you can switch over. This is the original view, what I call the full workspace. And you can see that there are all these different modules and you can move these modules around. You can change the width between them to make things wider or smaller. You can reorder them and you can also pop any of them out.

10:59 So if you wanted to put the YouTube chat on a different page, you could just pop that out, grab that and throw that somewhere else. Again, what I was finding was that this was just too busy. It really was too much for my eyes. So this new streamlined version does a couple of things. First of all, it gives you this nice side panel where you have a lot of the buttons that were up at the top here.

11:24 It moves them over here to the side panel. It also takes all of their chat and puts it into one panel. So I've got the panel chat here, the Zoom chat, YouTube chat, and Mukana chat all right here. and if when a message comes in on any of these you'll obviously you'll get a you'll get a little ding or not a ding sorry you won't get an audible ding you're in a show but you'll get a visual

11:51 notification that you have a message there and and so that's that's sort of the the main interface for the host you can as a host see all of your panelists here you can grab the panelist views This is how you move folks through the queue. I'll show you that in a moment. You can add send producer queues. So please raise your volume.

12:20 And you can send that to the whole panel or just one member of the panel. You can send that queue and they'll get a notification. There's an area for notes. This is really just for the host. So this is where, for example, I put the embed code for each week so I have it handy I don't have to go searching for it this is where you can set up

12:41 comms so I built in using daily.co private production talkback so this is not anything fancy like we're used to here on office hours I limited it to one way so just host or or the producer to the panelist and again once once i enable comms you can see that i can choose who i want to send this to i'll show you that in just a moment let me go ahead while i'm doing this i'll

13:13 set up my audio devices for that and perfect and then i've got uh the messages all the messages button does is it makes this the active window so i can quickly send a message over here if i want And then I've got some other things down here. This is all of my panelists. Again, this is where I can add panelists to my list. This is where I can promote panelists to producers.

13:37 If I'm going to host the show and I don't want to have to worry about putting chat messages up on screen, I can have a producer do that. You can prepare your next episode over here. I built in a prompter, so I always have an intro for each show. So I built in, this is actually, I really love this feature. I built in this prompter here so I can click edit and I can type

14:01 in my intro here. And then what I do is I choose zoom video window. And let's see, this is, this is the zoom window here. I know that's Ecamm. Is that what I want? Yeah, I'll choose that one. And so now I have my, um, uh, the script on top of, it doesn't work well because you're just seeing me but on top of the zoom meeting um and so i can um i can simply

14:31 watch you know um watch this go and i can still see the folks in the zoom meeting behind me which is super helpful to me um let's see integration so this is where the zoom integration lives the YouTube integration and the Stream Deck integration. So Zoom was, this was the hardest part for sure, because I had to have it approved as a Zoom app, which I just found out last week actually.

15:02 And there's a few extra steps that you have to take in order to get the Zoom to work. And we can look at that later if you want. YouTube is easy. You just put in the show code from the end. And then the Stream Deck setup is, I built out the plugin. It's not in the Stream Deck store. It's just a local plugin, but you can download it.

15:24 And then what's really nice is, I have the Stream Deck open somewhere I can show folks. So what's nice about this, so this is my Stream Deck setup for the rundown. And you can just see that I've got these four buttons up here. This is, so I can select my panelist. so you can see as I press it the names change and they cycle through the panelists that I have

15:49 on the show today and then those those selections affect who I want to put on deck and then once someone is on deck I can move them to on air I can show you that in the apple so and then down here is the comms so if I want to speak to an individual I can press this and again kind of scroll through the different panelists that I have. Most of the time, I'll just keep it on

16:13 whole panel. And then when I hold down this hold to talk, that's when actually, I probably shouldn't have done that. I'm not sure if that muted me. But that's what that button is actually both the comms button in run my show, and it controls a little magic I did over on my Rodecaster Pro over here so that it mutes me everywhere else except in the comms.

16:47 So that's that. But that's the Stream Deck integration. And I actually did build a companion plugin, but I haven't launched that yet. Integrations, chat overlay. So one of the cool things here is that any chat message from panel or Zoom or YouTube or even Wukana, I can throw up as a chat message on. So I can, let's see here. Let's put in, actually, I'll do it for real.

17:20 So I'm going to send a message here on the panel. This is a test message. I think it works from, yeah, it does. So I have this little button right next to every message. If I click that, you'll see that it pops right up on my screen with the name of the I think it shows yep the name of the person and the message itself and then I can pull that off in mukana it's interesting

17:44 because run my show is not seeing this as chat it's just seeing a web page and so what I did is I copied, I said, you highlight something, you copy it, and then you click paste to overlay. It automatically pasted in here. It opens it up. All you have to do is put the name in and then send to overlay. It's absolutely not clean.

18:15 But it solves the problem. Right. Right. It gets the message out there. You mentioned before, David, that there's a difference between a panelist and a producer. So obviously you're allowing different kind of levels of access. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, absolutely. So let me show you. So you've seen what the host sees. This is the host view and also the producer view.

18:40 But let me jump into a panelist view so you can see what that looks like. The panelist view is much more simple, I think. you've still got the left side here with the your rundown in the middle i should have mentioned that sorry let me just go back one second the middle here is the right this is actually kind of the most important thing this is the the the rundown or the workspace and once we start the show which

19:03 i can show you later you'll see that this actually walks us through the show step by step each section that is a traditional run of show that everybody kind of understands ahead of things so we know where we're going next what the next segment is going to be about right and we listen to david in terms of now it's time to take the transition from right so if i press go live

19:23 then this first section it starts immediately and um and then i can using the stream deck or just doing it here i can kind of move us through and it keeps time but how long we're talking about each thing um so for panelists they have this also and you'll see that it lights up for them so when I make a change over on my end, it shows them where we are in the rundown. They have the same

19:47 chat over here. If they have the comms over here and notes, any activity. So if I, you know, if I put any cues in, they would get us a pop-up, but they'd also be able to see that here. And most importantly, this is where they can say, Hey, I want to, I want to jump in. So when they click on call on me, then for the host, I get this pop-up that says, hey, Tamara wants to say something.

20:16 Sorry, Tamara, for picking on you. And then I can, again, using a Stream Deck or here, I can move her to on air and now she's on air. And something that's kind of neat here, I didn't think this was going to be important, but it actually is, is this little timer here. So this This timer shows how long the show is going.

20:38 This timer shows how long each person has been speaking. So this is Tamara's view as a panelist. This is showing she's on air now. This is showing how long she's speaking. As a host, I'm able to see all of the different panelists and how long their talk time is. And that actually helps me as a host think about who do I want to draw more out of?

21:05 Who do I want to maybe push up in the queue to get their voice heard more? Yeah, because if somebody's kind of holding back and they're not contributing, you know, they have something to contribute, then you're going to focus the show on them for a little bit and let them have their say. Exactly, exactly. And so once Tamara's done on my stream deck, I can just press take her off and now she's off stage and the next person can go up.

21:30 And it's all sort of automated. So whenever, when you raise your hand, the first person who raised their hand, they're on deck by default. When I push them to on air, the next person who has their hand up goes to on deck. You can, as the host, you can change that order, but fundamentally that's how it works. So for the, for the panelist, it's really, this view is relatively simple.

21:51 And I think, I really think this is going to be better for folks. You've got the rundown in the middle, you've got all your chat on the side, and that's kind of it. You know, whereas back in the workspace, this is what it looks like. You still have everything. You've got your panel chat, your Mechana chat, your YouTube chat. It's just, it's just, it's busier.

22:11 It's busier. It's really fascinating to me because one of the things I think we've learned from our six years on office hours is having this organizational system of we kind of know who's going to speak next and who's on deck and who's coming up. It allows you to keep your thinking clear. and if you hear somebody mention a part of an answer that you were going to do you can kind of

22:32 dump that and get to something else so it keeps from having all the participants be tremendously repetitive and you're trying to come up with something new for the audience all the time so yeah really useful system and you know bill mukana i mean mukana does this so well and the The only reason, I don't want to say the only reason, but one of the main reasons why we didn't use Mukana for this, why I didn't use Mukana for this is only because Mukana is really question based.

23:06 And the hand raising feature really kind of only works based around questions. So at first, what I would do is I would put a generic question that said, if you want to talk, raise your hand here. But it really, it just, it doesn't work well in Mukana. This is just a different model. It's not around questions. It's really more about around discussion.

23:28 And then the other big thing was I really wanted YouTube chat to be to be able to be a part of it also. And that doesn't isn't isn't integrated currently in Wukata. We're getting close to our Q&A part of the evening, but I want to ask you one more thing. And that's I know you're constantly thinking about these things. Is there anything on your wish list or on your to do list that you're thinking, oh, the next iteration?

23:48 or did you just do that by making this rebuild? Yeah. So, yes, of course, there are things on my to-do list, but I actually, I'd like to step back and I want to give a shout out to Mickey because we have at the bottom of the host panel and every panelist panel is, oh wait, my big fat head is in the way,

24:17 is this check mic. So I built meters into run my show. So everyone has their own meters. But like most things, I don't know what I'm doing. And so I really didn't do it properly. And Mickey and I hopped on a call last week. He was just helping me with my personal audio. In the process, he really taught me what this should be measuring.

24:41 And now it's doing really, really well. and it's really giving a nice loudness, a true LUFS meter, I think, for each individual. It's not going to do a good job for the whole panel because it's not measuring every voice, but for each individual user, it's at least a good starting point. So there's a lot more that I definitely want to build, but I also, those little improvements

25:10 and boy, being able to call on folks in the office hours community to help with that, I mean, that's a big piece of it. You know, it really is. Well, and Mickey has helped every single one of us over the course of time. What I sound like, not only in office hours, but just in everything I do everywhere, would be half of what it is if I hadn't had the benefit of his wise counsel over the course of the years.

25:33 I can't tell you the number of times that Mickey has been me going, you got this little problem. We can fix it really quickly. Let's hop off on there on Saturday or something and get it done. And that's the spirit of office hours all the way around. We've been incredibly lucky to have so many really brilliant people who have become a part of this community who will always reach out and help when they can.

25:55 I'm going to toss up the QR code again here. So for those of you who maybe want to get a question in for David about this, suggestions, things that you would like to see, I'm sure he's open to any and everything today. So there's the QR code. Shoot that if you want, or simply type askofficehours.global into any web browser. And we already have a set of questions coming in. So, Cindy, you're up. Let's dive into our questions.

26:20 Starting us off today is a question from Tony Mobley in Noonan, Georgia. David, what inspired you to create the app? Tony did. By the way, I'm throwing up here. I got up on my screen. I mean, Mickey is watching. Always happy to help and learn with everyone. So thank you, Mickey. So appreciative of you. Yeah, it really was just all the windows.

26:45 That's really what it was. It was too many windows, too many things going on. And actually, I will add one more piece to that, Tony, and thank you for everything, especially for asking, but for everything you do. So the rundown, it's a one guy show. I mean, it's not because the whole panel does everything, but as far as the technical stuff, it's me. It's me on my laptop and Ecamm, you know? And so when it comes to bringing up lower thirds or, again, capturing chat and bringing that in or managing the conversation, when you're one person,

27:31 i've never forgotten that we we've we talked about this with alex quite a bit the the whole idea of building a team and how you know when you're one person when you're multitasking something's gonna something's gonna give something has to give and and but having said that i love multitasking that's the kind of person i am so what inspired this was wanting to build a tool

27:53 that could help me do that that really was was it for one you know if you're tell i mean you know the fact that it's kind of in dark mode beginning that's what you want on a show when you're sitting in front of a camera and you've taken a lot of time for your lighting you do not want some interface that somebody in the back of a tv station design that suddenly adds you know 700 lumens to

28:15 your face from one side because they weren't thinking about what you actually needed to get done absolutely yeah yeah let's dive into our next question our next one is my question and i'm wondering, does this app only work in Zoom meetings or does it even work in Zoom meetings? I would like to use it in a StreamYard on-air webinar. Yeah, thank you, Cindy. So, great question.

28:41 It does not have to do work in Zoom at all. It, so let me, yeah, let me, let me show you this. So this goes back to the module idea. And let me just caveat, I haven't tried this part live yet, since I made all the changes. So we're going out on the type room. Let's try and break things. So if you if you go into modules, which I you probably couldn't see

29:10 my head was covering it, but it's down the bottom left here of the host panel. These are all different modules so panel chat run of show call on me q youtube live chat mukana these are ones that i've just built in host shows you can add any web embed so if i put um i don't know https office hours dot global now this isn't really going to look good but um i can add this module

29:39 and now I can turn it on for host, turn it on for panelist or not. And yes, in the streamline view, it's not going to show up. But if I go over here to the full view, there is now a new panel down here with that embed. So all of these panels, they're just embeds from other places, not all of them. So when it comes to StreamYard, you could, for your work, you could turn off the Zoom meeting chat, if you're not using that, and then just build in or create a StreamYard embed.

30:25 Presumably, StreamYard chat can be popped out, and you could grab the URL to that. That's exactly what I did with Mukana. And you would have your StreamYard chat here also. If that doesn't exist, tell me and I'll just I'll build that in. That is one of the next things is that I built this for my use case, which is Ecamm and Zoom.

30:47 But the idea is that folks can use it in lots of other ways and lots of other tools. So very cool. All right. Next question. Next up is another question from Tony Mobley in Noon in Georgia. Can you talk about how those of us using Audio Hijack and Loopback work with your app? And for those of you who aren't aware of them, I think everybody who hangs out at office hours regularly probably knows both Loopback and Audio Hijack.

31:17 They're programs that we use a lot around here. One scrapes audio from one device on your desktop and patches it to another thing. So you can use it to build kind of a mixer type environment and aggregate things. So loopback is kind of a patch panel, if you will, of how to connect things to a bunch of things coming in and figure out how you want to route them to a bunch of areas going out.

31:45 So that's the overview. But, David, do you use it with this? I don't. But that's probably only because I've got a Roadcaster Duo here and I've got a Roadcaster Pro in my office. So I'm able to route stuff the way I need to. So I just don't need to use. I did in the very beginning of the pandemic, I absolutely use those to create virtual microphones.

32:12 The only, this is not capture, except for the comms, this doesn't capture audio or video. Especially when I was going through the Zoom setup, I kept it super simple. It's read-only, Zoom chat, because anything beyond that is more work because of security and privacy and all of that. Work worth doing, just not work that I had time to do at the time.

32:43 So there's no audio going through Run My Show except for the comms. The way that I have my comms set up here is, again, using the Rodecaster Duo. if you're familiar with it there are two channels out there could be three but there are two channels out there's main stereo and then the chat channel and basically in the RODECaster Duo you can set the chat channel to be to be what's the word not organized set up for back

33:19 channel chat and so that's what I did and then I just assigned a button on my stream deck so that But when I press that, it connects that to the comms. Not not really all that complicated, but I can show you here if I go into my comms, where is it? Comms, there it is under audio devices. So this is where I would choose again for my workflow, the duo chat and then the duo

33:50 chat here. And then you can see here that I've just connected this as a MIDI device and a smart pad, which that triggers the back channel chat. Could you do that with Audio Hijack Loopback? Sure. Do I know how to do that? Uh-uh. No. But you absolutely could. I'm sure. All you have to do is head to After Hours and ask the question and probably seven people will jump on it and help you figure out how to patch everything together.

34:19 Exactly. the magic of this community let's go to the next question and here we have another question from me cindy drosta in erie colorado what do the panelists have to do to get connected to comms or view the run of show as i recall it was pretty easy to get into this i imagine you put a lot of time into making this pretty simple david what what are what's the what's the onboarding process for

34:43 somebody who's never seen this before i don't remember just being hard yeah it's it's a link that's literally all it is so each each panelist has their own unique link these are not secure links so and we had this if someone else clicks on your link they're going to show up as you that's probably something I could work on I really didn't want to have logins and and OAuth and stuff

35:07 like that so as of right now you you click that you open a tab and you're in now this bar at the top this is actually something that i built in um i have this um uh this is tamra and i actually have her open i don't think we're seeing it do you have it switched oh goodness i'm so sorry that's all right i just wanted to make sure you apologize no no um you you let me do that again actually

35:35 because that's that was fun to see that that little it was a mistake it was a wonderful little thing um where's my button so i come over to my host hub if i click here i can see all my panelists and then i just copy this link and then paste it in now the reason that i'm getting this is that i have this same panelist open over here and we did this because tamra specifically

36:04 wanted uh to have this open on two different screens so she could have different things in different places. But then the question is, well, what, where are the comms coming through? And where does the call on me button work through and things like that. So now you can open this in two places. And you get this saying, hey, none of the controls on this window are going to work.

36:24 This is a view only, unless you want to switch to this window. And then this one becomes the view only. So if you want to move things around and have two of these open, that's actually a feature now but yeah for panelists to get in you you send them the link and uh and that's it and there's actually i believe yeah so right here this is where you can add your panelists there's a button

36:50 right here copy all links and i could now go into if i have a discord server with everyone i can paste all those links right there and people it has their name next to their link and you just paste in and click on the link. Nice. Very nice. Let's go to our next question. Coming in from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Josh Kaufman is asking,

37:10 what was your experience like building on Zoom as a developer? How easy was it to work with the APIs, SDKs, documentation, and platform limitations as Run My Show evolved? It was terrifying. It's only terrifying because I don't know what I'm doing. So I want to be clear that while I take credit for designing, for testing, for, you know, for really doing all of that work, I did not write a line of code.

37:43 This was all done with Codex. So I take a little bit of credit, but I give a lot of it to the tools that we have available to us. And those tools work just as well in the Zoom app marketplace and preparing your app for the Zoom app marketplace as they do in writing the app itself. In fact, I have another app that I built for my school that I'm getting ready now to add to the Apple App Store and the Google Play App Store.

38:15 And it was the same process. The AI tools that we have available to us are able to sort of navigate you through that. So basically what I did is I created a developer account. I came in here and I had to go through and fill out all the information. um much of it i could figure out on my own that which i couldn't i would open up um my my little

38:46 um puppy dog down here who is my ai avatar that's my puppy sadie and uh for for chat gpt and i would ask her um and she would take over my computer and sort of walk through um uh everything here when when I first did it when I first put it in there was one piece that I did not know about and it really wasn't in at least what I saw and so of course I called I said Andy Carluccio's

39:22 name three times and he appeared and he helped me learn about something quite important actually so So, and this is probably worth showing if that's okay. Sure, absolutely. Yeah, so in the integration, so Zoom setup, in order to grab chat from Zoom, you have to enable something called DLP, data loss prevention. And this is something that you have to enable, that the user has to enable on their own Zoom account, at least in the way that I'm using chat.

39:59 I have not built the Zoom app into Run My Show. So because I haven't done that, I don't have a... The Zoom app does not live in Run My Show. You don't have the API embedded somewhere. Thank you, right. So fundamentally, you have to just go into your backend, to your admin settings, turn on DLP. Once that happens, I was getting the chat

40:22 and now it works beautifully. And so I actually built in here, you know the the different uh what you have to do because there are a couple of steps but um what that was nice of you so for people coming into it now after you've done it you've actually documented the steps around the problem and have exposed that for everybody who uses

40:43 your site exactly yeah nice it's and there's there's not a lot to it you you enable dlp and then you put in your your um you authorize your zoom account that's really all that there is to it And then from there, it's nothing more than putting in your meeting ID. And once you put that meeting ID in, you're good to go. Integrations, Zoom meeting.

41:11 Yep. So I could change this meeting ID to any meeting ID as long as it's one of my, you know, I own it. It has to be my account. As long as DLP is authorized, is turned on, then Zoom will work. Um, the, the, the last thing I, that was tricky for me was they test every app. And so I had to create a way for them to log in to run my show and actually set up Zoom

41:44 chat and then test it. And again, Codex to the rescue, it helped me do that. Uh, and they approved it. And so now it's on the app store. It's actually unlisted on the App Store because there's nothing to install. There's nothing to do. But in order for it to work in my app, it has to be either unlisted or listed in the App Store.

42:10 It's interesting. It's an app that's not an app. It's an aggregate of things that are app-like. You know, I think of it, Ecamm for Zoom. So Zoom is built right into Ecamm. I don't think, actually, I'm going to do a quick search here. I don't think, it actually is listed on the, so Ecamm actually is listed on their store, on the Zoom marketplace.

42:35 There's, again, there's nothing to do here, but it is there. Interesting. All right, let's go to our next question. Here's one from John Wallace in Pontiac, Michigan. Do you have role-based access controls for many roles other than just host and panelists? Not really, John. I mean, again, so there are three roles. There's host, there's producer, and there's panelist. There's no security around the panelist view,

43:10 but also the panelist can't really do anything. The worst thing that a panelist could do, that is to say to the show. If you're in the middle of a show. They can't burn your show down. Right, if you're in the middle of the show and someone logs in as a panelist, the worst they can do is leave a chat message that no one else, that no one in the,

43:30 only panelist will be able to see and they could raise their hand, which, so that's, and I could kick them out. The producer, I've actually never used the producer role yet. I built that in, but I've never used it. And the idea there is that you do have to be authorized, you have to be promoted to that. and that does require login.

43:53 So both the host and the producer roles require login. The panelist view does not require a login. Okay, so you're promoting anybody can kind of be a panelist. You want to be able to invite people at a kind of a drop of a hat, but the other two have a little bit more ability to touch the back end of things so you're going to know who it is and make sure that they can, yeah.

44:15 You've seen their ID before they walk through the door. Yep, exactly. Let's go to our next question. Cindy Drozda in Erie, Colorado is very excited about this app. Does it enable you to create scenes with one or more panelists in the spotlight in a Zoom meeting? Yeah, no, it does not control Zoom at all. This is purely back end. This is purely back.

44:40 It's informational. It's back end. Other than, sorry, that's not entirely true. The only way that it interacts that is forward facing is through the overlays that I built in the chat overlays. If you use the chat overlays and you're using a tool like Memo or vMix or Ecamm and you can bring those or you could technically do it in Zoom with a little fiddling, then that's forward facing.

45:12 But nothing else is. It doesn't control Zoom. It doesn't control Ecamm. If you want that, you got to talk to John Wallace. He's building something amazing for, I think, more up that alley. This is purely back end to help run the conversation. That's really what it's about. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. It doesn't run the show. It runs the conversation.

45:36 The conversation happens on a different kind of layer in Photoshop turns than the show does. The show is one thing. this is connecting and coordinating and helping everybody perform the show yeah but not figuring out who goes next and who goes on onto there other than allowing the host to determine verbally you go next and you know it's in now that you're saying that um in many ways the app doesn't run

46:05 my show it allows me to run my show there you go right because i'm able to be more present than than perhaps I would otherwise be able to be. And I'll also just say that for me, for my workflow, having the Stream Deck integration was the single most important part of this. If I want to advance someone to on-air, I don't want to have to find my mouse and look,

46:30 I just want to press a button. And so that works beautifully, which is wonderful. And I can do a little promotion for you here, because from the point of view of somebody who is a guest on a show who's coming in, the big advantage for me has been I can see what we're going to talk about coming up. I have much more information. I'm never sitting there looking at

46:49 three by five cards or my notes about what I wanted to go. Now, maybe I want to take some notes about what I want to say on the show. That's a different thing. But in terms of understanding which topics are coming up next, what their scope is, to be able to see the same documents that that David had shared with us a couple of days before and saying, these are the topics we're

47:09 going to be focused on this show. And here's some stats and here's some things you can look at if you want to learn a little more about that to form what you want to say on the show. But it's not getting in my way. It's really just making things much more convenient, keeping everybody in the moment. And I think everybody understands that being present when

47:28 you're doing something live on the air is about 90% of the battle. You don't want to be distracted by anything. You really just want to know what you need to know and be ready to contribute when it's your turn to contribute. And this has made that a lot easier for me. So. Absolutely. You know, the notes piece is actually interesting. The way when we started the Rondo, we're now

47:50 97 shows in, 96 shows in. When we started, what we've been doing all along is we have a Google Doc where I put some research and some questions and what have you. And then people would go in and comment on it and leave notes and things like that. And I didn't want to lose that in pre-show. So this hasn't taken off yet, this aspect.

48:13 But one of the things that's built in here is that you can, on any section, you can put in notes. And you can put this in for the whole panel. You can put this in for just the host or the producer, or you can just make private notes. So if I just want to make a private note, you know don't forget to mention this whatever then um now i've got this note attached to this

48:38 particular segment that we're going to be talking about um if i if i do a panel note this is a panel note then uh then from the host um i can actually i see that um because it's still open and a little bit like in mukana how you know we're able to mark questions as as answered or addressed i can also say hey we we got that you know we we covered that and then mark that as covered so um so yeah but

49:11 but allowing panelists to again it's if you have notes that you want to put on this jump in ahead of time um and throw some notes down so you have them handy um and then and then everything's right there for you let's go to our next question here we have a comment from tony mobley in newton georgia i like the update thank you thank you tony that's on brand for tony showing appreciation to

49:40 everybody's hard work so yes nicely done all right unless somebody has other questions i think we've got one more to go through here and here it is one more from josh kaufman in pittsburgh pennsylvania As you look ahead, what features or capabilities are highest on your list for the next stage of Run My Show's development? I really focused on the tools that I use, like Zoom, for example.

50:10 I've thought about StreamYard. I've thought about other platforms. I haven't built the native integrations for those, and I'd like to. I'd like for other people to be able to, I want other people to be able to make this their own. So that, that I think is, is next on, on, on, on my list. And, you know, I'd, I'd love for folks to jump in. It's in beta right now. I don't know if it'll ever come out of beta. I'm, I'm not sure.

50:42 But if, if, you know, if someone, I found it useful, if other people find it useful, jump on into the beta play around with it i can't see any of your data i don't have access to any of your shows or anything like that it's it's entirely yours so come on in play around david if people want to talk to you about it ideas just thoughts back and forth what's the best way for

51:06 them to reach out and engage with you uh discord uh email um any of those i actually do have a discord for run my show it's a very quiet discord because i'm the only one in it because i haven't you get in any arguments that's the question i argue with myself all the time yeah hit me up in discord um or um or just go to run my dot show probably my email is somewhere there you can pop

51:34 me an email uh when you sign up for the beta it sends me an email and and i'm i'll reach out and Happy to engage. And if there are things that you would find helpful, please let me know. Codex and I will shack up one weekend and work on it for you. One more out of the blue question. What's been your biggest surprise in doing this project?

52:02 I continue to be amazed at the AI tools that we have that can help us do this. It's brilliant. it. It really, it really is. You know, this is, this is, this has been a side project. I have another app that I built for the school I mentioned before. It is far more complex. I have hundreds of users using it every day. It tracks attendance, it's chat, it's, I mean, it's,

52:39 there's so much going on and somehow it's all working. And it took a ridiculous amount of time and more tokens than I care to think about. But the fact that I was able, that anyone is able to dream of something and make it a reality. You know, we did a show. I don't know if you were on it, Bill. We did a show a while back about the future of software and how SaaS, software as a service is really, it's going to be facing a challenging time because we can all create our own tools now.

53:22 I don't need to pay someone for my school tool or for my rundown tool or I can make it myself. And having the tools at our disposal to do that, that just blows. It really does. It really blows my mind. Certainly living in interesting times. And I know you feel this way. Something like this would have been utterly impossible 15 years ago.

53:51 No one had the expectation. Nine months ago. Yeah, that's true. As a non-coder, you would be able to create code-based things that actually function. got out into the world and helped people do their jobs like this, it's just not even a question. It's just fascinating. And, Bill, because there are real coders, real developers who may watch this, I just want to say I'm not you.

54:19 I have so much respect for the work that developers and coders do. I don't ever want to pretend that I'm something that I'm not. And I certainly also don't want to suggest that these AI tools are taking the – they may be, but I don't want to suggest that. It is such an art. It is such an art to be able to do this.

54:44 And again, I'm just blown away by the fact that little old me or little old anyone now can play along in small ways. Yeah, it's interesting to me because I don't think that the serious programmers, the people who have made this their life's work and do things that affect tens, hundreds, thousands, tens, thousands, millions of people, their code must function. It must function correctly.

55:10 I mean, airplanes and trains and all sorts of important things in society rely on those people to do their jobs well. But what this has allowed is somebody with a niche need to be able to implement their ideas of what the best way is to attack this problem and multiple people to look at different ways to attack it. Or maybe their problems are just a little bit different.

55:35 And then in the past, one of the things used to drive me nuts is you'd get a somewhat complex software package and you had to fit yourself into the way the designer of that software package felt you were going to use it. what their imagination of your priorities was. And we are beyond that now. Now it's David Paskin's priorities are reflected in David Paskin's software.

56:01 And for David Paskin, that's a perfect fit. You just, the word imagination, you just nailed it. And again, this school app that I built is probably a better example of this. But I have some crazy, ridiculous stuff. We give out, we give awards to kids every week. Every Friday, you know, you get a, you did it, whatever. You get a little certificate.

56:25 I don't even want to talk about the old workflow. I built into the app, teachers nominate the child. I press one button, the parents get notified so they know to come, and the certificate is created in Canva and printed for me. Like, no one else needs that. No one on the client needs that. No, actually, probably a bunch do, But the fact that you could do that but I did and it's because I could imagine

56:54 What I needed and and and how a specific tool might be able to fix it it that being able to empower our Imaginations it's it's just so exciting to me. It really is Yeah, it sounds like it you lit up when you were talking about that and I can completely understand my wife was a fifth-grade teacher You don't know that that might be the day that that poor kid was just feeling down in the dumps.

57:18 And the fact that you had a simple way to acknowledge them, say, I see you. You did a great job here. That might make the whole month for that kid. So, yeah, absolutely. All right. We have to move on because we're getting to the top of the hour here. Our next Tuesday Focus, my guest is going to be talking audio. We're going to be talking audio with Brian Fisher from Lewitt Microphones.

57:37 That is next Tuesday right here on the Office Hours Tuesday Focus. and it's time to say goodbye to everybody. So our traditional close, thank you very much to everybody on the crew who works in the back of this. You will see some credits roll at the end. Notice who was there and who put their time and effort into doing this. Our clock traversal tonight,

57:59 if you had been going around to get this information, you would have had to travel 10,000 miles, 16,000 kilometers, 81 million bananas for scale. Thank you to the crew and my deep thank you to David Paskin for coming in and talking with me tonight. I hope we can, I get it. My great goal for the office hours is to do these kind of shows for a long time

58:20 so I can keep hanging out with wonderful people who teach me a lot about what's happening out there in the world. David, thank you so much. Love you, brother. Love you. Yeah, same thing. All right. Thank you all for listening and watching and we'll see you next time on the Tuesday Focus. That was fun. You did a great job, man. You really dug into this.

59:13 Thank you. Thank you.